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That strikes me as really intense, WWTL. Even the deciphering your own preferences well enough to turn down that trip twice impresses me.

With my anniversary coming up, I have a decision to make there. My wife has asked to celebrate it. I told her that I would think about it, and that my thoughts have been in the direction of not celebrating it at least as long as the A lasted. I think that hit her really hard. I hope it made her stop and really feel the weight of the years of it, and it also is another sign she cares. I am strongly considering agreeing to celebrate it with her. I know my emotions are volatile, but today it sounds like something I would like. I don’t know what better yardstick to use to judge that.

Well take what you need an leave the rest.

I really don't know if I can honestly recommend my method on anniversaries, but my anniversary is an explicit rugsweeping day. We decided on the first anniversary, we would pretend like the A didn't happen for exactly 24 hours.

I actually wrote her a card that year like it didn't happen. Which was its own sort of emotional gut punch for her knowing it didn't reflect reality, but that it could have if she hadn't cheated.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with that decision, but I recognize my willingness to do stuff like that probably kept me on the slow roll for at least a year until I did ask for a D, and we had *another* 24 hour hiatus on the A since it seemed likely we'd be divorcing once a broader holiday ceasefire ended.

I really don't know if I can honestly recommend my method on anniversaries, but my anniversary is an explicit rugsweeping day. We decided on the first anniversary, we would pretend like the A didn't happen for exactly 24 hours.

Feels like you just told on yourself.

Just a retelling of what happened. Pretty sure I said the same thing at the time. I'd have to look at my original thread.

Just a retelling of what happened. Pretty sure I said the same thing at the time. I'd have to look at my original thread.

Should have used my sarcastic voice, or at least a winky emoticon. I was just noting the rugsweeping.

I appreciate hearing everyone’s unique approaches to these complicated situations. Not that I’m looking for permission, but I do use this place to look for landmines. I feel a greater sense of freedom on how to handle this.

InkHulk:

Thanks for adding your perspective. Can you imagine a scenario where you would consider R? If not, do you know why?

I could imagine CRAVING to R, but as far as ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THROUGH with it? NO. I'd simply never be able to trust her or her purported love for me again. (Google 'Cads and Dads' for yourself. It is an eye-opener!) I'd feel like I sold myself out if I stayed i.e., I'd lose self-respect.

OR I could see myself becoming a controlling asshole to her, i.e., I could become someone who I don't want to be but have some tendencies towards I am aware. Maybe that falls under the umbrage of self-respect though.

There are simply too many other beautiful women out there. Why should I keep being faithful to one who was not faithful to me?

With that said, celebrating the day previously known as your anniversary as your WW seems to wants to, well that would be Classic Rugsweee...you get the picture. Your WW needs to be made aware that she DESTROYED the marriage with her actions, she was actually a DOUBLE AGENT pretending to be your wife when she was actually someone else's girlfriend. If your WW wants to take this day to bestow gifts upon YOU then you can consider it if you really like, but she shouldn't expect anything in return, other than the gift of you still being there that is.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 2:10 AM, Wednesday, March 29th]

I could imagine CRAVING to R, but as far as ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THROUGH with it? NO. I'd simply never be able to trust her or her purported love for me again. (Google 'Cads and Dads' for yourself. It is an eye-opener!) I'd feel like I sold myself out if I stayed i.e., I'd lose self-respect.

I can see that as a perspective someone could take. But do you see that others see it differently? Cads and Dads is no different than wanting a "lady in the street and a freak in the bed", to quote the great Ludacris. Men are sexually excited by women they don’t regard as wife material.

At my core, I believe in the value of reconciliation in the presence of humility and repentance. You’ve read and commented on enough of my thoughts to know that and where it comes from.

With that said, celebrating the day previously known as your anniversary as your WW seems to wants to, well that would be Classic Rugsweee...you get the picture. Your WW needs to be made aware that she DESTROYED the marriage with her actions, she was actually a DOUBLE AGENT pretending to be your wife when she was actually someone else's girlfriend. If your WW wants to take this day to bestow gifts upon YOU then you can consider it if you really like, but she shouldn't expect anything in return, other than the gift of you still being there that is.

You can clearly see the diversity of opinion on this on this thread. I come here to get ideas and other people’s perspective, not to be told what to do. I’m more than happy to hear how you see the world, but do try to remember that others see it differently, and we seem to have some pretty different lenses in our glasses.

...celebrating the day previously known as your anniversary as your WW seems to wants to, well that would be Classic Rugsweee...you get the picture.

Not necessarily. My W asked about celebrating. I told her what I was willing to do. She adjusted the 'celebration' to fit within my boundaries.

She raised an issue and resolved it very creatively. I took that as a sign she wanted to be with me. Her actions matched her words and her non-verbal communications. I don't see how that is rug-sweeping.

I don't know about Mrs InkHulk, of course.

Ink, Have you figured out what you want to do about your anniversary?

I have had just 1 anniversary since DDay and it was close to it. I did not say anything about the day and the issue was not discussed. Flowers showed up and a house project was completed.

Next year, if we are in a better place I would consider it. I earned every year of this marriage whether it was good or bad. I stayed to my values and vows.

Ink, Have you figured out what you want to do about your anniversary?

I told my wife that I would be willing to honor the day with her. I told her that I would like there to be a somber element to it, not the whole thing, but something that acknowledges our current state. And also that if it is making me miserable that I reserve the right to bow out of the plans.

Thank you all for your thoughts here, it helped me organize and process my own.

I earned every year of this marriage whether it was good or bad. I stayed to my values and vows.

This sentiment has popped up more than once on this thread. There are a few things I take from that:
1) BS’s seem to still place a lot of value in the marriage, otherwise we wouldn’t care so much to stake this claim
2) we also seem to care a decent amount about the length of time and there is a sense of accomplishment in being virtuous over long periods of time

At my core, I believe in the value of reconciliation in the presence of humility and repentance.

Can you please elaborate on this? Thank you.

InkHulk:

You can clearly see the diversity of opinion on this on this thread. I come here to get ideas and other people’s perspective, not to be told what to do. I’m more than happy to hear how you see the world, but do try to remember that others see it differently, and we seem to have some pretty different lenses in our glasses.

If we were talking ideal vacation spots and you were to say you like Beach over Mountains, then I can accept and support that, even though I prefer Mountains. Not being blunt on the idea of you celebrating with your WW your "anniversary" after she cheated--which presumably involves you getting her a gift--well, that I just find beyond my ken.

You are of course free to take what serves you and discards the rest. With that said, besides doing what I can to stay on the right side of the rules of this place, I am not changing the way I post. I can't change the way I post. If I feel strongly about something, that will be made very clear! I know of no other way.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:58 PM, Wednesday, March 29th]

Can you please elaborate on this? Thank you.

It would quickly get into religion, so not sure how far I can take that. If someone needs to slap my hand for it, I understand.

Jesus tells a story about a man who was forgiven a massive debt, an amount the man could never hope to pay off. That man promptly goes on to try to collect a minor debt from another man. When asked for the same mercy he was given, the man refuses and has his debtor thrown in prison over a tiny fraction of what he was forgiven. The story doesn’t end well for that guy.

To analyze this story in the context of infidelity would turn into a big discussion about religion and philosophy and clearly violate policy. I’d be happy to PM with anyone who really wants to. But to elaborate as asked, this is where it comes from for me. I believe I have been forgiven much and I would be wrong to withhold forgiveness to a humble and repentant person. And I know there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation, but my religious hope would not be worth much if all I had was forgiveness and not reconciliation.

I totally respect that others will not share this perspective and am not intending to proselytize.

So that’s as far as I dare take that and if it is seen as a violation of rules here, I apologize, I tried to walk a line.

My feeling aligns with WWTL and some others. It’s one thing to offer grace when faced with a remorseful snd humbled person. It’s totally another thing to honor one’s anniversary within the first year of D day. To me, these two things are mutually exclusive. One is also able to offer grace but at the same time not reward a WS with the gift of an anniversary, especially within year one.

Another thing to think about. You’ve offered grace and now you want to reward infidelity with an anniversary celebration. Your WW may subconscious think wow, I cheated pretty bad, and my husband not only offers me grace but also an anniversary. Terrific! I really haven’t suffered many consequences from my actions accept some grace filled reprimands from my husband. I wonder if I cheat again I can expect more grace and kid glove treatment?

I’m not necessarily opposed in the future to potentially celebrate your anniversary, just not in the first year.

Consequences matter in life. Just some food for thought.

You are of course free to take what serves you and discards the rest. With that said, besides doing what I can to stay on the right side of the rules of this place, I am not changing the way I post. I can't change the way I post. If I feel strongly about something, that will be made very clear! I know of no other way.

Sure. But you can tailor the content of your post to the person to whom you are responding. You have never shared your story WBFA but from your various posts, I gather you are pretty "pro-D/anti-R" in all, or at least most, circumstances. That is what you tend to preach to others, at least. You are, of course, entitled to your opinions, however InkHulk has made it pretty clear in his various threads that he is trying to work towards R. It stands to reason then, that he may be hesitant to take advice (or marching orders) from someone who has never stood in his shoes (and in fact, does not believe that R is a reasonable option).

I could very well be wrong, perhaps you have attempted R and it was a total disaster. Again, I have no idea because you do not share the perspective from which you are writing. If that were the case, I can see how posting your experience with the same and how that compares to InkHulk's experience, could be helpful for him. Most of us are not experts in infidelity beyond our own experience. To others, we are just strangers on a screen sharing what happened to us and what we've learned from it.

To be clear, I'm certainly not suggesting that only reconciling or reconciled BS should be responding. InkHulk has posted in General after all - presumably he is looking for diversity of opinion. That said, if I am interested in apples and I ask a question about what I should consider while trying to buy apples and someone responds "APPLES ARE A WORTHLESS FRUIT! Your diet should consist of red meat and broccoli only." That is not particularly helpful to me, is it? Especially if I don't know whether that responder has any relevant nutrition credentials.

My feeling aligns with WWTL and some others.

I respect that.

It’s one thing to offer grace when faced with a remorseful snd humbled person. It’s totally another thing to honor one’s anniversary within the first year of D day. To me, these two things are mutually exclusive. One is also able to offer grace but at the same time not reward a WS with the gift of an anniversary, especially within year one.

Offering grace and celebrating an anniversary definitely aren’t mutually exclusive ideas. I think you mean from the context of what you have written here that you think grace is acceptable but I’m taking it too far, right?

Another thing to think about. You’ve offered grace and now you want to reward infidelity with an anniversary celebration. Your WW may subconscious think wow, I cheated pretty bad, and my husband not only offers me grace but also an anniversary. Terrific! I really haven’t suffered many consequences from my actions accept some grace filled reprimands from my husband. I wonder if I cheat again I can expect more grace and kid glove treatment?

If I read between the lines, it seems like an anniversary is a really big deal to you. I’d say it s a pretty medium size deal for me, something worth paying attention to but not really life changing. I don’t think that this choice of celebrating the anniversary or not is of that great of consequence when measured on the universal scales here. That fact that I did not immediately divorce her sends a much stronger message of grace than this. I could choose to take a stand on this and "punish" her, or I could placate her and make her feel better. But what I am actually doing is doing what I want to. Yay me!

Consequences matter in life.

They do, but please see my last post. A favorite line of mine from a favorite artist goes "the beauty of grace is that it makes life unfair". She has had consequences. She has admittedly so far dodged some of what it could have been, including divorce, poverty, wide public humiliation, and suicide attempts. The human heart can react to grace with gratitude or the attitude you describe of emboldening for future wrongs. I don’t know how to predict which way it will go. I think there is a ditch of total rugsweeping and an opposing ditch of punative anger. What the perfect balance is in between, I don’t claim to know. I’ve found the input from people in successful R on this thread to be helpful and freeing as I navigate.

emergent8:

Sure. But you can tailor the content of your post to the person to whom you are responding. You have never shared your story WBFA but from your various posts, I gather you are pretty "pro-D/anti-R" in all, or at least most, circumstances. That is what you tend to preach to others, at least. You are, of course, entitled to your opinions, however InkHulk has made it pretty clear in his various threads that he is trying to work towards R. It stands to reason then, that he may be hesitant to take advice (or marching orders) from someone who has never stood in his shoes (and in fact, does not believe that R is a reasonable option).

I could very well be wrong, perhaps you have attempted R and it was a total disaster. Again, I have no idea because you do not share the perspective from which you are writing. If that were the case, I can see how posting your experience with the same and how that compares to InkHulk's experience, could be helpful for him. Most of us are not experts in infidelity beyond our own experience. To others, we are just strangers on a screen sharing what happened to us and what we've learned from it.

To be clear, I'm certainly not suggesting that only reconciling or reconciled BS should be responding. InkHulk has posted in General after all - presumably he is looking for diversity of opinion. That said, if I am interested in apples and I ask a question about what I should consider while trying to buy apples and someone responds "APPLES ARE A WORTHLESS FRUIT! Your diet should consist of red meat and broccoli only." That is not particularly helpful to me, is it? Especially if I don't know whether that responder has any relevant nutrition credentials.

What exactly should I be posting then? In any event it does not exactly take a Dr Phil to understand that celebrating your "anniversary" so soon after what has happened, well, that is rugsweeping. Even if R is the ultimate goal. Am I supposed to not say that?

I tried R to save a relationship with someone who suddenly "was not feeling it for me anymore". When I found out that it was in fact infidelity, I was emotionally done. She was LYING to me this whole time! I couldn't get past that. Sticking with someone after that is something that is beyond my comprehension.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 7:21 PM, Wednesday, March 29th]

Like many people, I had really complicated feelings about my first post-d-day wedding anniversary. For me, one of the reasons it felt particularly fraught was that it also happened to be our FIRST EVER wedding anniversary. Yep….. we had been together in a serious, committed relationship for 10 years prior to getting married but had not even been married a year when I learned of his A, which began a few months after our wedding. So yeah, I TRULY felt like I could rightly be elected the president and hall of shame member of the "my marriage is a sham" club. How could I possibly believe our wedding vows had any meaning whatsoever when he broke them mere months after making them.

Our anniversary also occurred only a little over a month after D-day so things were pretty fresh and at the time our anniversary occurred, I was VERY MUCH still on the fence over whether I intended to stay in the marriage or not. He was very much in favour of R and eventually convinced me to attend the out of town getaway we’d previously booked and paid for. I attended under no guise of planning to celebrate. I certainly wasn’t wearing my wedding ring at that time. That said, it actually ended up being a really good trip for us. Kind of like a marriage retreat of sorts. I’m not sure if it was the change of scenery or the hot springs, or the wine, but we ended up having a lot of really important, really deep conversations during that trip. We laid our souls bare about what we wanted and didn’t want in life and what we thought it would take to move forward. Many tears were shed, both happy and sad. I’m glad I went. I have tender memories from that trip.

Years later, I still kind of feel like our wedding anniversary should come with an asterisks. Like we’ve been married 7 years but it’s really 6 years infidelity-free. But for us, the wedding anniversary was kind of arbitrary anyway, even BEFORE infidelity, because it ignores the history of our relationship which was real and rich and deep long before the wedding. In the 10 years prior to getting married, my husband and I grew up together, we went on exchange together, we got degrees together and our first grown-up jobs together. We grinded it out through our first few grueling years of practice together through recessions, and job losses and career highs and low. We backpacked to more than 35 different countries, shared our families, experienced births and deaths and tragedies, bought and renovated our first home, and all sorts of other things. That was all real and I choose not to ignore it or pretend it didn’t exist or matter because of an 8 month affair.

The particular dates mattered a lot to me initially. I remember noting the day that we had (finally) been married more days without infidelity than with. With more time and space and healing the specific dates matter less. We continue to choose to celebrate our relationship, in all of its highs and lows, on our wedding anniversary because it's easy. I’m okay with that. Weddings are symbolic but it wasn't the wedding that ever mattered to me, it was the relationship.

Because our vows felt like such a sham, I remember being fixated on a vow renewal for a while because I wanted something to be in place that MATTERED. I obviously wasn’t prepared to do it until I felt confident that we were reconciled and that was real. Somewhere over the years, I got to that point. It kind of snuck up on me though – it’s a gradual thing, you don’t just wake up one day and say "wow, I feel reconciled." So yeah, maybe we’ll do something on our 10th anniversary. That would feel symbolic I suppose.

Not being blunt on the idea of you celebrating with your WW your "anniversary" after she cheated--which presumably involves you getting her a gift--well, that I just find beyond my ken.

It’s possible that you have a longer lasting and consistent revulsion to my wife’s cheating than I do, then. I’ve deeply suffered with this to the depths of my soul for 9 months. I’m starting to feel better and have no desire to intentionally wallow in it. I find nothing in my heart that tells me to punish the hell out of her. I feel some caution, and I feel love, and I’m hopeful about the personal work she is doing. That is my internal reality today

[This message edited by InkHulk at 7:31 PM, Wednesday, March 29th]