SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So, in my "permitted to change my mind" state I'm not quite "uncommitted". I am faithful, supportive, and all the good things a good spouse does. And I will keep doing those things, consistently. But if I do one day wake up and change my mind. I'll let my wife know. My promise is that she won't be surprised by this.

You see, she injected the uncertainty. Saying "we R'd but if you do it again it's over!" Still gives her the power. It's basically a full capitulation.

Say we were holding up a plank and in between was the valuable crystal vase of marriage. She dropped her end. We picked up the bits, glued them together, put it in the plank, and picked our sides back up. I don't feel any real duty to hold up my end to protect the glued together vase if I get tired of it. It's not "if you drop your side again, I'm out" it's "I'll walk away at any time, because I already understand that you have exercised that option."

I’ll want to be proud of my 20th anniversary. And if we need to discount 4 years to honestly reflect that, then so be it.

The first couple of anniversaries after day were definitely the most difficult for me. I think your attitude toward staying and if R goes forward can change for better or worse depending on how well it goes.

At this point, my wife and I simply appreciate that we found a way back and are (now) grateful we didn't give up on the other. I would say the next anniversary will be more about the moment than anything else. All of the years didn't go as either of us thought they would, and I think that's most marriages, even the ones facing non-infidelity adversity.

That said, I am not going to punish my wife for her worst days -- I think that it would be a punishment I subtracted those worst days from the marriage as annual reminder.

As to the 'house burned to the ground' metaphor in the thread, I still use that now and again, but the time to repair or rebuild is included in the time together, at least for me.

I'm not far out. Our 10 year anniversary was 1 month after full disclosure and I did not acknowledge it. I do state we have been married for 10 years.

I wonder how waywards feel about this question. Do they feel as if they were married the entire marriage, even though they were having an affair(s)?

I'm a madhatter. I don't recall feeling un-married during my EA, but I was always very aware of the physical line that I wouldn't cross, so someone who's had a PA might feel differently.

My H said he never took his ring off when he was with the OW, which I find very interesting. He thought he was in love with her and planned to leave me, but he never took his ring off? I mean, this man takes his ring off to change the oil and work in the yard, but he didn't take it off to have sex with the OW. Weird, I think, and telling.

Yes, I have heard many say here that infidelity burns down the house and the marriage is over. I am sure many feel that way in their marriage , but I never did.

We use a lot of word pictures and metaphors around here, don’t we? Short phrases that help bring clarity in all our swirling thoughts. There is a quote that I really like "All models are wrong, some are useful." The burned down house is a poignant metaphor, it is helpful to me to comprehend my own loss and to communicate it to others. But we have to be careful how far we take any of these mental models, they all only go so far. They cease to be helpful at some point and are just wrong then. We all have to judge those lines for ourselves. I think if I really gravitated to this house burned down model, I would divorce even as I entertained R. Some people do. I don’t want to do that, so I must think/hope there is still something here to salvage. And if that is true, that probably speaks to me seeing the entirety of my marriage as having legitimacy.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 7:39 PM, Friday, March 24th]

On paper I'm married 20 years but as far as my head and heart are concerned my marriage ended when he began his LTA and I only am able to guess when that was by all the red flags popping up since he's never been man enough to even tell me when it began.

I remember looking at him as I was uncovering what was going on and feeling in that moment that he was no longer my husband and that I could never look at him that way ever again. He forever became the AP's boyfriend or whatever label two married cheaters place on each other.

You see, she injected the uncertainty. Saying "we R'd but if you do it again it's over!" Still gives her the power. It's basically a full capitulation.

I don't see it that way at all. "If you do it again, I'm out" is a boundary and it's about your power. Boundaries are always about what we're willing to accept and not about trying to control someone else, right?

If she cheats again I'm out. Sure I have that boundary. I'm also out for any reason or no reason at all. She doesn't have a promise from me that I'll work out any marital problems or wake up one day and decide the A was in fact a deal breaker.

"I'll stay unless you cheat again" is the implication of "if you cheat again I'm out". Maybe we just need to be really specific here in the discussion. The boundary isn't the *only* and limiting reason keeping me in my M.

I would say 14 years is more accurate. The years your WW was cheating, she was only PRETENDING TO BE your wife. You cannot be someone's spouse for real while you have a boyfriend (who is someone else) who knows more about your life than anyone else.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:11 PM, Friday, March 24th]

We just celebrated 32 years, it couldn’t do for the first couple of years, but when we started to truly R, and I believed it. I celebrated with her.

I really had to accept that infidelity is part of our M history forever but it doesn’t define it. We had many great years before and couple good ones after.

If she cheats again I'm out. Sure I have that boundary. I'm also out for any reason or no reason at all. She doesn't have a promise from me that I'll work out any marital problems or wake up one day and decide the A was in fact a deal breaker.

Agreed. Anyone could wake up tomorrow and decide that they'd be happier single. We don't have to have a reason or a busted boundary or even infidelity. My point was that boundaries aren't about the other person, so it's not giving them any power or implying that we'll stay if we say, "If you pull this crap again, I'm done." WE have the power at all times.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 11:20 PM, Friday, March 24th]

I really had to accept that infidelity is part of our M history forever but it doesn’t define it.

This. And I know a lot of folks never get to that point (because it's really, really hard work to get there), but it is a more succinct way to describe how I see my marriage now.

I love this question. I still keep my wedding band on, but I removed my engagement ring. Symbolically, my wedding band is my vows. I did not break them. The engagement ring is his vow. He broke it three years ago when the A began. If we successfully reconcile, I will need new vows, and a new ring forged from the old engagement ring and wedding band. Until then, the only thing holding this marriage together is my unbroken vow— and that means it is not truly a marriage.

I still keep my wedding band on, but I removed my engagement ring.

After Dday I refused to put my wedding band on, when we entered true R, my W took me out and presented our new rings. I’m totally against renewing vows, but new wedding bands was very appropriate.

I think if I really gravitated to this house burned down model, I would divorce even as I entertained R. Some people do. I don’t want to do that, so I must think/hope there is still something here to salvage. And if that is true, that probably speaks to me seeing the entirety of my marriage as having legitimacy.

I did say that R meant rebuilding from the foundation up. So, even though the house has burned down, if there is still something to build from, then R is possible. For me, that metaphor still works. If there was nothing foundational (meaning the WS either just walked away, or continued to light fires) then D is probably the best option. I like this metaphor very much and it does help me to explain what my WH did in a way he can visualize it.

At this point I don't think I will ever celebrate our anniversary again. Which I'm fine with. Perhaps some day we might choose a different day to celebrate our new M. That's still up in the air and I'm in no hurry to even visit it at this time. I have no idea how my WH feels about this at all. And quite frankly, I don't care at this point. If he'd cared so much about our anniversary it would have meant a whole hell of a lot more than how he treated it. (This is some of the bitterness talking for sure, still working on letting go of the resentment...work in progress I guess).

Well, my XWH hit the hard boundary, so we're D. Part of my processing led me to realize that I was living authentically with the information I had. When I was happy, sad, angry, whatever, I was experiencing those things.

What do you feel about how long you've been married?

I would say 14 years is more accurate. The years your WW was cheating, she was only PRETENDING TO BE your wife. You cannot be someone's spouse for real while you have a boyfriend (who is someone else) who knows more about your life than anyone else.

Thanks for letting me know what to think and what was going on. But I’m not rugsweeping now, am I?

Did you consider this question for yourself? Any insights there?

Say we were holding up a plank and in between was the valuable crystal vase of marriage. She dropped her end. We picked up the bits, glued them together, put it in the plank, and picked our sides back up. I don't feel any real duty to hold up my end to protect the glued together vase if I get tired of it. It's not "if you drop your side again, I'm out" it's "I'll walk away at any time, because I already understand that you have exercised that option."

I really feel you here, it makes sense in my new reality but it is also antithetical to the understanding of marriage I’ve had my entire adult life. My understanding is that marriage is a balance of love and commitment. To remove the commitment, the "better or worse", I don’t know that I’d be comfortable. Will she stay with me when I’m old and sick if she knows I’m daily evaluating whether or not to stay? Will I be satisfied with that arrangement? Sounds tough.

My H said he never took his ring off when he was with the OW, which I find very interesting. He thought he was in love with her and planned to leave me, but he never took his ring off? I mean, this man takes his ring off to change the oil and work in the yard, but he didn't take it off to have sex with the OW. Weird, I think, and telling.

My wife took off her ring the second and third time with him. Also feels telling.

I’m totally against renewing vows

Tanner, would you please share why you feel this way? I have thought about wanting that if R really takes, but I also have that conversation with ThisIsFine going. It seems like a big topic in itself.