SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi.

I'll try to make this post as brief and to the point as I'm able although the subject is quite complex. Please feel free to beat me with a 2 x 4 if you think I need one!

The background: I'm retired law enforcement (63) and have one adult son who lives separately. I had a 19 year marriage with his mother until she betrayed me and gave me no option other than to divorce her. After 10 years myself and XWW both get on well enough.

I'm currently married 3 years and live with a loving, warm and open woman (55) also on her 2nd marriage following a mutually agreed divorce from her first husband after 25 years due apparently to his anger/mental health issues. She has no children. She was brought up in a warm, loving and open family. I was brought up in a loving but quite emotionally distant family and sent away to school. I've always been an independent and private person. My wife is a much 'warmer' person and has many friends. We both identify as HSP's. I do still suffer from post betrayal trauma which has been severely triggered by this conflict. I'd say my wife is a good judge of character and generous to a fault. She has never given me any reason to distrust her about anything.

The issue: Recently we decided to update our Wills. I raised my concerns about the possibility of my son missing out on his inheritance should I drop dead suddenly and my wife were to remarry (marriage in the UK nullifies any previous Wills). She basically went into meltdown, especially when I suggested setting up a Trust to protect any inheritance that might be left after we have both died. Additionally she also felt she'd get a raw deal as the ringfenced assets in the Trust would be administered by the Trustees and she would therefore not have total control over her own expenditure.

I tried to explain to her it's not because I don't trust her (she now believes I definitely don't trust her!) but that sometimes shit happens and inadvertently things can occur that were not necessarily intended eg 'Oh I'm newly remarried and I know I need to make a new Will to protect my stepson which I'll get round to at some point...whenever' and the next day the surviving spouse gets run over by a bus. What happens to the child's inheritance? It goes to the new spouse. Or, maybe in old age the surviving spouse goes a bit doolally and decides to leave everything to the Cat's Protection League! What happens then to the child's inheritance? It's gone!

OK it's a one in a million chance but I would much prefer to have the security blanket of a formal, legally drawn up Trust.

This has caused an incredibly damaging rift between us and tbh is in danger of derailing our marriage completely.
We both love each other, get on well on so many levels and do want it to work but this has really knocked us both.

What I struggle to get my head around is that if the situation were reversed and she had a child from her previous marriage I would have no qualms about her setting up a Trust. I wouldn't feel it a direct attack on my honesty or trustworthiness and would understand her concerns and agree with her proposed solution.

Why are our reactions so so different?

Just to add, she knows I have trust issues and feels it's my upbringing, previous career and divorce that has made me the way I am which is likely very true. I have until recently always been quite private about personal wealth (or as she tells me 'secretive') and I don't enjoy discussing finances. I have however recently opened up a lot about 'our' finances and budgeting. I would say she's generally anxious about money and has concerns that we may not have enough to live on relatively comfortably going forward, especially as she recently sold her quite lucrative business. She likes to have certainty and a 'plan'. I've made it abundantly clear that in no way do I want her to go financially short in old age and that in some scenarios such as prolonged elderly care my son's potential inheritance could be used up in care home fees in any case.

This feels like a Gordian knot. My dear wife is incredibly angry with me and I am incredibly sad! She has told me that what has been said by me cannot be unsaid and as a result she has emotionally withdrawn from me. We are at least agreed that we do need couples counselling. I would never have imagined finances would cause such a massive issue between us!

I'd really welcome any thoughtful input on here...please!!

I don’t personally have experience with your exact situation as I don’t have children.

However, I don’t feel ur being unreasonable. My older sister died from a stroke 12 years ago and has 3 grown, responsible and financially independent daughters. My widowed BIL has had the same partner for about 7 years. He is former military but also a pension from his only job as an adult that was about 35 years. If I recall her spouse was retired LEO, so a survivor pension. She has 2 grown, irresponsible, addiction and legal problems, likely narcissistic sons.

She is a lovely person and is of course now a part of our family too.

They have made the decision to never marry in order to keep their respective children’s possible inheritance "safe". If one of them got hit by a bus or has an illness that could drain both of their individual finances the other is then protected too.

I say the above as example in my opinion of an adult couple who will take care of one another for the rest of their lives, but both have responsibilities from before they ever met.

Your wife recently sold a business, is that solely her money? Or how was that handled? Was it her business long before you met or started after you became a couple.

I can understand the feeling for couples counseling, but have you both met with a financial planner? So all the options, etc. are open and discussed w a professional?

[This message edited by AnnieOakley at 3:49 PM, Sunday, May 4th]

Why a trust? Why not just give your son control of the assets you want him to inherit? (That's a Q for you to answer for yourself; no need to share your answer except, perhaps, with W and son.')

I, too, think a good CC can help your W see that your decision is not a threat to her. I agree that a good financial planner could help, too.

I've about come to the conclusion that ALL of us grow up screwed up, even in the most loving families. I realize there's a lot of irony in that statement, but I think there's a lot of truth in it, too.

Have you been to see a solicitor or are you just operating on your personal knowledge of Trusts? I ask because your wife seems to think that she will be under the thumb of the trustee and have to get permission to spend Trust monies. Is this what your solicitor said? In the U.S. you can write a Trust agreement that would not put the beneficiary in the position of having to get sign off by the Trustee. I would suggest finding a solicitor who specializes in trusts and estates and have your wife accompany you to the consult. One other technique that I have seen to safeguard a child’s inheritance from the vagaries of re-marriage is to take out a life insurance policy with the child as the beneficiary. Life insurance proceeds are distributed outside of the estate so it wouldn't matter if a surviving spouse remarried or died the day after you died.

You've hit on the reason that I would most likely not remarry if I were widowed. If I did, it would be with a pre-nup that ensured that my children's inheritance did not end up solely in the hands of my new spouse.

Several years ago, a friend of mine lost her father and stepmother to a car accident. Both of them were killed at the scene, but her father was officially declared dead before her stepmother. Because of that, her stepmother inherited everything as his surviving spouse (though she only survived him by minutes), and her entire estate passed to her heirs. Those heirs initially said a lot of supportive things to my friend about being fair to her... but those words were proven empty when the estates settled. They kept every dime of the money.

I also understand why sisoon's proposal to just give your son control of the money wouldn't work. It's not fair for your wife to be dependent on his graciousness if he suddenly owns the house she lives in. If you want her to have access to the income of principal that will eventually be his, or rights to live in the house until her death, a trust makes sense to me. Likewise, her assets should be shielded from your son if she has other heirs in mind in the event that she predeceases you.

My views on this are colored by my financial concern for my kids even if I never remarry. One of them is set to make an excellent living, but the other two are not pursuing lucrative careers. While they work hard to save money, they are not positioned to accumulate sufficient wealth for their retirement. I'm prepared to make sacrifices to look out for their interests, and I can see how a stepparent might not have the same priorities, especially one who comes into their lives when they are adults. It can also be hard to have to adjust a standard of living as a widow or widower, so it's more straightforward if that's all laid out ahead of time and left in the hands of legal administrators.

Although I certainly hope my husband finds love again if I die, and I can see why marriage might be important to his new partner as a symbol of that love, he and I have made a firm pact that any legal agreements we enter into will reflect our current financial priorities.

I want to look at this issue from another angle...
As with all advice that is basically about law and process then this is the absolute worst advice here on SI... But we might be able to open some issues to discuss with a professional in your area.

It’s my understanding that upon marriage in the UK any past will might become void. If there is no mutually accepted will made then the surviving spouse get’s half of the estate, and the rest is divided equally between the spouse and surviving relatives according to some definition. So basically: If you are worth 1000 at time of death, your wife get’s 500, and 500 would be divided between her and your son – 250/250. She would end up with ¾ of the total marital estate. Note it’s not YOUR estate – but the combined estate you both have to the marriage. The key issue might be how much of the total combined marital estate is really her contribution.
In a way I get her fear. Imagine this scenario: Let’s imagine you two are living in a house you had before the marriage worth 1000. You had 1000 in savings. She sold her business for 2000. You both make comparable monthly wages/pension. You are of an age where you can afford holidays to Spain, travel to the USA and all that. You don’t have to stay at two-star dives, and can afford a nice, comfortable lifestyle. Only... that lifestyle slowly eats at both your savings. That’s fine – that’s what they are for. Money is to use and enjoy and no need to become a Scrooge to save up to your sons inheritance.

When you finally get hit on the head by that meteor you are still in the 1000 house, you might have 500 left of your savings, she might have 1000. All of a sudden, she might be dependent on the benevolence of a third party (your son) on ongoing residence, her savins (perceived) lower by a third, and the combined income from pensions/wages probably down by 60%... It’s an uncertainty I fully get would bother her.

I would be equally concerned if there wasn’t a will though... I would fear that in the above scenario the combined estate is house (1000), 500, 1000 = 2500, she get’s 12500 but has to pay your son 625. At the same time – with no will and no kids... I think your son just won the inheritance lottery as your descendant if she passes first.

This makes sense IMHO. Marriage is a union, and this ensures that a partner that has taken part in that union. Only I think that’s generally based on a lifetime of marriage rather than getting married this late.

Friend – I think the real issue is communications...
I think you should take her financial needs and concerns seriously, and the two of you discuss finances, budgeting and all that in an open and frank manner. Financial issues is the main cause of divorce, and a key factor in anxiety and stress. Budgeting isn’t ever being allowed to buy a fishing rod, it’s rather that you both know that despite the purchase, utilities are paid, food on the table and that the car will be renewed in 14 months. It’s clarity.

I also think you should mutually discuss the goal of a will, rather than the specifics.
Your goal IMHO should be twofold: the first one being that your wife is taken care of and can focus on her grief, rather than how to pay inheritance tax or sell the family home.
The second to ensure that your son has an inheritance. These two goals are IMHO equally important and have to be treated equally.

Maybe the solution would be that your wife purchase half of YOUR house. Maybe the solution is that you both agree that 2 separate savings accounts are in your separate names and not marital assets and are dealt with in a will. Maybe the solution is that assets brought to the marriage aren’t marital assets (know this can apply in UK divorce). Maybe the solution is that your wife makes your son inherit her (rather than the Chesire Cat Society).
Maybe a clause that the estate must be cleared if the surviving partner were to remarry or cohabit with another.
Maybe a clause where your son get’s the house but has a long-term tenant agreement with your widow (outlining costs and responsibilities).
I am 100% certain that your situation – where there is the possibility that your son might not inherit her since she isn’t legally related, or the situation where he could demand payment from the estate because she isn’t legally related – is a known one with solicitors. They have a known solution.

I think the key here is to get your two goals across, and to listen to her goals.
I think you would benefit personally – as well as relationship – by opening up on budgeting and financial issues.

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On a personal level: My marriage went through a rough time some years ago (some decades ago...). Part of the issue was what my wife experienced as financial uncertainty. For me it’s enough to know I have about 100 left on my account. For her she needs to know it’s 99 or 103. To work on our marriage I sat down with her and we talked openly about our incomes, our debts, our credit-cards, our goals and all that. We started budgeting and setting goals. Like the goal of paying the mortgage in 15 years instead of the 30. Our goal of saving for a holiday with our sons in 18 months.... We then sat down regularly to go over the budget. If I got leftovers for dinner, I knew we were at the amount we had budgeted for food that month...
Once you start hitting your goals... That’s when the magic happens.

I can also share that we signed a will less than 30 days ago. Basically it’s a statement that the surviving partner has the right to all the assets for their lifetime, but that if I (or she) remarry our surviving kids can demand to get paid their share.

I am certain that with fairness, honesty and openness you two can reach a solution that both are happy with.

Just a few thoughts, dodging most legal questions because IANAL or in UK.

Your adult son isn't entitled to an inheritance. As long as you get him out of the nest on his own comfortably you've done your job. God willing, if you live to an advanced age, it will likely be more of a bonus than something life changing.

You are statistically very likely to pass well before her. She will likely have to survive a decade or more after you pass. She should be concerned. You're asking her to trust you and your son quite a bit here. You are also asking that her contributions to the joint estate also be given to your son, where even without kids she may have desires to leave something for other people or charities.

What sort of conversations have you had with your son surrounding this topic? I know when my mom went started a similar one, my response was I don't care what she does.

This should have been addressed before you married. Three years in and after she sold her business was not the proper place to throw this grenade into your relationship.
I see there being a few solutions now that you have.
1. Trust her to follow your wishes if you pass first. See paragraph 1 above. There is still a chance that you will be the last survivor also.
2. Carve out a portion to be gifted to your son either on your death or in a trust that will supplement her afterwards before being transferred on her death. Rely on option 1 for the rest.
3. Seak legal counsel together to seek a solution that satisfies both your desires (you that your son inherit, she that she has unencumbered financial resources if you pass first. It may be choice 1 is the answer.

I wouldn't make this a bigger deal than it is. While inheritance would be nice, I would expect that your son would prefer you live long enough to spend it all. Even with your wife assuming she makes you happy.

I honestly don't understand why she is having an issue with this. You want your son to get his share of inheritance and she will get her share. I would keep it separate so there is no question about it. If I re-marry my boyfriend is going to have to sign a pre-nup as my inheritance that I am going to get IS going to go to my kids and not him or his family.

"Why are our reactions so different? "

Just from your post, not knowing your wife personally, I would say the answer is simple… She doesn’t have any children.

I have always felt that it is expecting too much that people who don’t have children would understand the way that those of us who do have children feel about our children. How could they? I don’t think it has anything to do with her not being a kind person.

I am not in your same situation, because my husband passed away, and I will not be getting remarried. However, all of my sons are adults.

I have been strongly advised by my financial advisor that I develop a trust for my sons for after my death. I have done this. And I have a corporate trustee. My financial advisor has told me that he has never once in 25 years seen individuals without a trust hold onto their inheritance for more than five years.

Obviously, my choice to have a trust had nothing to do about concerns that a current spouse would not execute my wishes. So I think that your wife could look at this differently and not take it personally.

I’m very sorry, but this has called a riff between you and your wife.

Just from your post, not knowing your wife personally, I would say the answer is simple… She doesn’t have any children.

That can't be emphasized enough. OP has a son that could potentially assist if his estate runs out too quickly. Those who go into retirement childless have greater concerns of getting into retirement with enough money.